Terms of Engagement—From Congress to Kitchen Tables: Understanding the Impact of the Government Shutdown

Archon Fung: Hey, everyone. Welcome to Terms of Engagement. We’re on episode 16. My name’s Archon Fung, I’m a faculty member at the Kennedy School and director of the Ash Center for Democratic Governance and Innovation.

Stephen Richer: And I’m Stephen Richer. I’m the former elected Maricopa County recorder, and I’m now a senior practice fellow here at the Ash Center at Harvard Kennedy School.

Archon Fung: And as always, we’re speaking as individuals, not as representatives of Harvard University, the Kennedy School, or the Ash Center.

Stephen Richer: So today we’re going to be talking about the human cost of the shutdown, of the federal government shutdown. And any other intros on that?

Archon Fung: Yeah, just…

Stephen Richer: How long has it been now?

Archon Fung: 28 days.

Stephen Richer: OK, because of course it started this month because the fiscal year of the federal government ended at the end of September.

Archon Fung: Right. Right. And so the immediate cause is that the Congress needs to reauthorize the spending bill that the Republicans passed and they uh need enough votes to overcome a filibuster so the Democrats blocked that, in part because they don’t like provisions of the new budget that will increase people who have Affordable Care Act insurance plan premiums. Those premiums will go up for many, many people. And as a result of the shutdown, according to the reporting, 730,000 federal workers have been deemed essential. So they’re going to work.

Stephen Richer: 730,000 federal government workers are still working, but they are working without a paycheck.

Archon Fung: Without a paycheck. And then 530,000, so half a million additional workers have been furloughed. So they’re at home and not getting a paycheck.

Stephen Richer: OK, so they’re not working, not getting a paycheck, wondering when they’re going to be back in. But their jobs restart when the federal government gets funded again.

Archon Fung: That’s right.

Stephen Richer: And then so people understand, it is the understanding of the 730,000 people that they will get back pay for the work that they do.

Archon Fung: They have in the past gotten back pay.

Stephen Richer: Have in the past, but the president has made some comments that suggest that…

Archon Fung: Right. So we don’t know. We don’t know, but they should, I think.

Stephen Richer: But the past results don’t imply future performance in the stock market. I know, I mean, we say this, but obviously it’s very meaningful to those people, one of whom is my wife. So

Archon Fung: And she’s furloughed?

Stephen Richer: She is not furloughed. She’s working without pay because she’s one of those. She is in the office.

Archon Fung: Yeah. I’m sorry about that. And along with three quarters of a million others. So one effect of the shutdown is that many, many public services have either been slowed down or shuttered. A lot of people have been talking about food aid. And a primary program for that is called SNAP, the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program. Their benefits are scheduled to shut down in just at the end of this week. And I encourage people who haven’t read it, Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri wrote a pretty powerful opinion piece in The New York Times today. And Senator Hawley writes that Saturday will be another grim milestone. That is the day that about 42 million Americans will lose federal food assistance. Congress must not let that happen. America is a great and wealthy nation, and our most important wealth is our generosity of spirit. We help those in need. We provide for the widow and the orphan. Love of our neighbor is part of who we are. The scripture’s injunction is to remember the poor as a principle Americans have lived by. It’s time that Congress does the same. Uh so, uh, we’re not going to talk about uh so much about SNAP, that’s not our focus today. Our focus is on one of the headline areas of news that’s not nutrition, which is about air traffic safety. And both TSA workers and air traffic safety controllers are considered essential workers, so they’re in that three quarters of a million that is working without pay right now.

Stephen Richer: Yeah and as somebody who flies a lot, this is of course, of great interest to me but also of great interest to me is, again, the human side of this government shutdown which does include those 730,000 federal employees who are working without pay. So to help us with both of those conversations we’ve got a really great guest this week and his name is Mr. Jack Criss. Jack Criss has been an air traffic controller for the Federal Aviation Administration, the FAA, for sixteen years And he has worked through three different government shutdowns, so this isn’t new to him, while this is certainly of a longer duration than perhaps some of those in the past. Jack is from Dallas, Texas, originally, and he is, I just learned, a Dallas Mavericks fan. He grew up in Section A poverty and describes himself as a, quote, started from the bottom person, end quote. He’s a proud single father to a daughter who’s a straight-A student and a freshman playing varsity sports. I learned that, basketball. She’s a guard at a private school in Arlington, Virginia. And he has recently made news because, like many federal employees, he is now juggling multiple jobs so that he can make ends meet. He has been impacted, obviously, in terms of his federal government pay, and he has turned to part-time work, including at DoorDash, uh DoorDashing, to keep his family’s finances afloat so a man who has very little time has made some time for us to come onto this program. So, welcome Jack.

Jack Criss: Hey, thank you so much for having me, we really appreciate that, very nice of you guys, thanks.

Archon Fung: Yeah, great. And so to kick off this part of the conversation, we want to play a clip from a local news story, or a news story, I’m not sure if it’s national or local that talks about what some federal workers are going through right now in the shutdown to tee it up. So, Colette, if you could play that short clip for us.

(Clip Narration)): Workers waiting in long lines at this food bank in Southern Maryland.

Denise Blake: I would have never thought in a million years that I would have been in this position to have to go to a food bank.

(Clip narration): Denise Blake says she drove over an hour to get here. When she finally arrived, they had run out of food. We have a cart ready for you out front. Fortunately, she did not leave empty handed, but she still faces the harsh reality of not knowing how she’s going to feed her family while she’s not getting paid during the government shutdown.

Denise Blake: I don’t want my daughter to see me crying.

Archon Fung: So Jack, what’s your experience been like? Does that little clip resonate with you or has your experience been really different?

Jack Criss: That resonates with me. Thanks for the question. More so because of peers of mine and stories that I’ve heard and anecdotes and people have been pouring in information to me. Particular to myself, I might end up having to, but before I would do that, I would rather just get out and DoorDash. And so I’ll go out and hustle, just my heart and the way I’m built, I’ll hustle as hard as I can before I go to the food bank. Not saying that anything is wrong with that and not saying that I might not end up there. In fact, I could end up there and I’m humble in that. But I’ll go hard, as hard as I can. I’ll pick up a second job, just like others will, in order to try to mitigate the pain. It’s not the fact that we… won’t get back paid because it’s highly likely that we will. It’s the fact that this time is different because previously President Obama, he canceled his trip. It was the same time of year, he canceled his trip overseas and he stayed here lobbying for Congress to pass the CR. The current president, I think it advantages his agenda to not force Congress. I honestly feel like they’re trying to rile the bases to get people out and vote more. And this is just a bad technique in order to get the voters interested in what’s going on.

Stephen Richer: So we’ve obviously got a few elections coming up. They’re state elections, not federal elections, but a few important elections coming up, namely Virginia, New Jersey, California has a constitutional amendment that’s on the ballot. But in the meantime, over a million federal employees are going without a paycheck. Now, how many paychecks have been skipped so far? Is it two that have been skipped?

Jack Criss: Just, just for us—today and then one day, so eight hours on the last check. So 72 hours, you know, work week is 80 hours, 72. And then this paycheck has has been.

Stephen Richer: So for people who aren’t experiencing this, we are now in multiple paycheck periods without a paycheck or with a diminished paycheck. And so for a lot of people, perhaps people can contemplate, well, hey, I could go a week without pay, or I might even be able to go a whole paycheck cycle without pay. But we’re now beyond that. We’re now beyond the one paycheck cycle without pay. And so really, I think it’s pretty easy to understand. And I think most Americans can look at their own personal finances and say, that would be problematic. And it’s especially problematic when there is no necessarily end in sight. Maybe it would be something if we said, hey, just give us another three, five days. But as you mentioned, the president was on a trip abroad. He’s, of course, necessary to this process because he would have to sign anything that Congress ultimately passes. And so federal government employees are still in limbo. But speaking of federal government employees, You work in a pretty stinking darn important area. Can you tell us a little bit about what someone in your position within the FAA actually does?

Jack Criss: Yeah, absolutely. Someone in my position in the FAA is responsible for the separation of live air traffic. And I can give you so many different anecdotes. Just just consider a job where if you if you make a mistake, if you have a mental slippage, if you uh, forget about someone on the runway, uh, because you’re distraught or because you’re going through a divorce, or you don’t know if you’re going to be able to make your mortgage payment or because your supervisor is, is, is hounding you, whatever, right? And you make a mistake, or if you tell somebody to climb through an altitude and there’s another aircraft present, the pilot read it back, uh, incorrect. You missed it because you’re, whatever, distraught or—you can’t, you can’t, everyone’s different. Everyone’s capacity to manage external factors vary depending on that individual. Some people may be able to compartmentalize well, whereas other people may not be able to compartmentalize as well. That’s that could end up in a dangerous situation.

Stephen Richer: In its most basic terms, your position is keeping aircraft safe, keeping them with enough distance between themselves so that there is no there’s no accident.

Jack Criss: Yep. So to avoid a collision, the purpose is to avoid a collision and issue safety alerts. That’s our primary goal as an air traffic controller.

Archon Fung: And for you personally, and then for people in your workplace, your colleagues in air traffic control, how well are you able to compartmentalize and, you know, with the additional stress and then additional hours doing the other job that you’re hustling with? And then what about the colleagues? How are they dealing with it?

Jack Criss: Personally, I, as humbly as I can say this, I’m able to manage a lot of pressure and stress because I, you know, I make sure that I put myself in those situations. Even when things are calm, I make sure I add stress. I always make sure I add the element of stress to myself, whether it be a cold bath or going for a five mile run in the 110 degree heat. I’ve done that, you know, but, you know, I’ve been admonished by coworkers for doing that. But that’s me. But, uh, it’s a wide, wide range of individuals’ capability. Some people can handle a lot and other people can’t, you know, I refuse, you know, I wouldn’t call out anybody, but I can tell you, everybody doesn’t have the capability of managing a high load. And that’s why we do extensive training in Oklahoma City, extensive training once you get to the facility that you’ve been assigned, and then we do recurrent training, refresher training. FAA has put things in place in order to help keep us as sharp as possible. But I’m telling you right now, from a personal experience, everyone’s capability of managing that varies. And there’s some people that don’t do it as well, and there’s others that do it better.

Stephen Richer: So as always, we welcome your questions. If you want to put your questions in the comment box, I know a number of you are watching live. Some of you will question us after. But if you have questions for Jack and his experience, please let us know. Jack, have any of your colleagues just said like, hey, guys, I could do this for a week. I could do this for two weeks. Like, I don’t know. And, you know, it’s time for me to not just have a side hustle like you have right now, but I’m out. I’m gone.

Jack Criss: A guy quit October 4th before the shutdown. I don’t know if you saw the writing on the wall, but he left. A young lady, I was actually giving coursework to in the classroom just last week, told me that she just had a baby seven months, seven months ago and that her babysitter cost $2000 a month. And she’s, she’s wondering if she had if she shouldn’t have joined. She just joined two months ago and she’s wondering if it had been better if she not joined and was there spending time with her vulnerable baby versus giving that baby to a sitter and not necessarily knowing when the next time she’ll get a paycheck, she’s distraught. I had three young air traffic controllers come into, I’m like the OG, I’m the older guy. They came into my workspace. I want to say office, but I don’t have one. They came into my workspace and were venting to me about, they don’t know how long they can go. And this is very tense. It’s very hostile, or not hostile. It’s very tense. And it’s very stressful of a moment right now because of the unknown. We just don’t know when we’ll get paid again. And they’re not even having a conversation. They’re not even sitting at the table talking about negotiating a CR. They’re off doing their own things. And they’re also paid as well. Congress is paid.

Stephen Richer: Yeah. So two things. One, some members of Congress are taking their salaries, obviously, while other federal employees, with a few exceptions, are not obviously getting a salary. You also mentioned that one of your colleagues recently had a child. Now, she’s probably out of the maternity leave period. But another thing that I read about that’s interesting and very hard is, maternity or paternity leave is not being offered during the shutdown, so if you have your kid right now,

Archon Fung: They’re supposed to go to work?

Stephen Richer: There’s no like, you know, paid maternity leave.

Archon Fung: Oh right, right.

Stephen Richer: That’s just, sort of, it’s like not even on the sort of book. So everything about the lives of federal government workers right now is topsy turvy.

Archon Fung: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I don’t need to call out anybody specifically for sure. But one thing that’s been reported is that there are travel delays because some air traffic controllers may be calling in sick a little bit more than before the shutdown. Do you see any of that happening? Are you feeling understaffed in the workplace because of a little bit increased absenteeism or you feel like, no, no, people at this point are still sticking with it, everybody is kind of firing on all cylinders despite what’s happening to them.

Jack Criss: So you’re faced with a situation where you sit down, we’re already short staffed, but you plug into the position and you have planes all over the place that you’re responsible for ensuring that everything goes perfectly, right? You’re giving left turns, right turns, speed control, descents, climbs. Clear for take out, clear to land. And everything has to be done. Right. That’s stress. That’s pressure and stress on itself. You can just take that and put it into a box and call it pressure and stress. Then you add in the personal life, maybe the wife, maybe a divorce, maybe a, a court situation. Everyone has their own. Air traffic controllers are far from perfect. Uh, you know, sometimes, sometimes we mitigate stress with, uh, a little bit of, you know, a little alcohol, not, you know, on the job, we do it responsibly. But I mean, if you study alcohol, the stress response goes on even after you consume for days on end if you over consume. And then they don’t know when they’re going to get paid again. So if you dump that on top of what’s already stressed and then you tell them to sit in here and perform perfectly and maybe they got a soup. Maybe they have a supervisor that’s abrasive towards them. You just never know when that tipping scale can occur. So how do you manage? How do you mitigate? You call in sick, man. You either call in sick or you run two together. And the last thing I want to see is what a controller at DCA saw in the January was lives in the water. I’m telling you, it’s very, very sensitive. And my heart goes out to everyone out there. Guys, you guys keep doing your thing. Jack is proud of you. Keep trying. Keep keeping them safe. And hopefully, man, this will end soon.

Archon Fung: So what you’re saying is, I mean, you’d rather a colleague call in sick, right? If they need to take that day, then take that day. Don’t be on the job where you’re making these life and death decisions and a little bit for.

Jack Criss: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, so I’m not in a position to make that, you know, I can’t say that, it’s just my baby opinion, I’m just one little guy. Right. But I urge you, if you’re not feeling up to it, don’t. Go try to separate live air traffic if you’re in despair or dismay or if you’re not feeling up to it. Don’t do it.

Stephen Richer: So, Jack, you’re proud of your colleagues and you’re proud that they’re sticking through it, but you’re giving that advice. But what would you say to younger Jack or to somebody who’s looking to enter this line of work, become, join FAA? Like, would this color your view of the job? Would this… Maybe would you maybe say, hey, maybe you shouldn’t join the FAA because you have to deal with stuff like this. Like, do you think that this will hurt the quality of employee moving forward of air traffic controllers.

Archon Fung: Or the number of employees? Air traffic controls, as you said, short staff, not only where you are, but nationally.

Jack Criss: You guys are incredibly intelligent. And again, I want to thank you for bringing me on because that is a phenomenal question. Great question. And I discussed this on CBS on Thursday night and they aired it on Saturday morning. Great question. Because no. And that’s a, and that’s a very bold statement. No, I would not have applied. High income. High income. I appreciate it. No, there’s zero way that I would had I known what I knew now, that I would have applied. Now that’s me, right, that’s me. I got, I got, I got a degree, you know, I’m strong. Some people, this is all they can do, you know, some people don’t have options to move around, I have the options, I have the courage to do something else. In fact, you betcha I’ve thought about quitting over the past two week.

Archon Fung: Really?

Jack Criss: Seriously. Yep, a guy quit, I thought about quitting, the young lady thought about quitting, and I can guarantee you if they, if they need, if we’re understaffed and they need to build air traffic staffing, who in their right mind would go join something where you could be able to put in a position where you’re not getting paid on time? We’ll probably get back paid, but being paid on time is important when it comes to credit. I mean, I’m renting right now. Now I can go ask my landlord, hey, bro, can I miss this month? He may or may not say yes.

Archon Fung: Yeah.

Stephen Richer: So in that same CBS interview, I think the one that you referenced, you said pressure on top of pressure on top of pressure. That’s not something that most people want to hear their FAA people saying. What is the doomsday scenario in how this manifests if just people like you keep getting, you keep having more piled on top of them and this goes on for another month?

Jack Criss: Whew, another month. First of all, yeah this is real life right? I mean, can I, I can’t use profanity on this show, can I?

Stephen Richer: It’s just, uh tell it to us in other terms.

Jack Criss: Yeah, it’s messed up, man. If it goes another month, I know four people that wouldn’t make it personally, financially, financially. And so, they sacrificed a lot in order to be in the position they are and we all know it’s because politics. We all know it’s not really like, a true reason, why they’re playing that game. And also, don’t make us come to work, you know? But they can’t do that, right? Because planes got to fly. But we’re having to come to work still. That’s the part that really ticks us off is that we know some people are at home are going to get the same exact back pay, whereas we’re at work and we’re going to get the same exact back pay. But we came to work. So that’s unfair in itself. It’s un-American and it’s unfair.

Stephen Richer: Does this eventually mean that planes don’t lie or we have to greatly reduce the number of routes or that—

Archon Fung: Or safety decreases?

Stephen Richer: Or safety decreases.

Jack Criss: Well, just think about it like this, man. And I’m not trying to avoid your question, but just think about if every single furloughed employee, even non air traffic, D.O.D., D.O.L., Department of Labor, D.O.T. Think about if everyone said, you know what, this is bull. Let’s quit. And what if everybody quit? Now that’s extreme, right? But what if everybody moved on and said, let’s go do something else. Man, the government would be messed up. So it’s not, it’s not okay. It’s not okay, yes. And I’m putting pressure on, on Congress because the left feels strongly about their position. The right feels strongly about theirs. And they just, they’re holding firm right now at the expense of my kid. You know, luckily DoorDash helped me out tremendously. And thank you door dash. Chris Cuomo helped out. Thank you, Chris. But man, my baby would have had to, literally got pulled out of her school and put into a school where in my neighborhood, the school is a two out of ten on Grade Schools. So that wouldn’t have been a good look for having to go there. So I’m going to DoorDash. And if it gets too ugly, man, I have I have a lot of entrepreneurial might that I want to express. Maybe I’ll go, you know, try to get back, get back to what I was doing.

Archon Fung: Yeah, you got a huge amount of hustle, which is incredibly admirable in your tough situation. So moving a little bit back, you mentioned this a little bit to the politics of it. Who do you blame? If anyone, who do you hold accountable? Is it Democrats, Republicans, all everybody in Congress for this situation that you’re in, other air traffic controllers, but then also the 300 million Americans depend on what you and other people in the federal government do.

Jack Criss: You know, It’s bad. You catch me offline, I’ll answer that for you. In the public, I don’t want to take sides because I think the Hatch Act prohibits it, at least at work.

Archon Fung: Oh, that’s true. I’d almost forgotten about the Hatch Act these days.

Jack Criss: I think it’s limited to work, though, I’m not sure.

Stephen Richer: Do your thing.

Archon Fung: Yeah, you got to do it.

Jack Criss: I refuse to pick sides. I do vote a certain way and I lean a certain way, but I’m more centrist than not. I really agree with my friend Chris Cuomo’s perspective. It’s like, the fringes are—most people lie in the middle, whether they lean left a little, a little right. Most of us are kind of in the middle. Uh, so I’m there, but we do need, you know, 5 Democrats to go ahead and vote Yes on a clean CR to get the motion move forward. But, uh, in that very same breath, because I don’t think the Republicans are going to give, I think they have more leverage. So, if this is ever going to open, it probably would be have to be the 5 Democrats to deflect in the Senate in order to get the CR passed.

Stephen Richer: What do you if you could, you know, without saying you should do X, Y, Z or person A is to blame, I don’t want to lead you there. But what would you say if all the members of Congress were sitting in front of you, what would you want them to know about people like you and your colleagues at this time? What would you want them to think about, members of Congress?

Jack Criss: They’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. That gridlock is so difficult, because I don’t want to see people’s insurance go up, no. But in that very same breath, I care about safety of air travel. And eventually, man, we have to do what we have to do. They would. So I would, I would urge them to have a seat at the table and negotiate, find some middle ground. Maybe, maybe instead of from $500 to $2000 premium increase, maybe it’s a $500 to $1000. I hate to see anyone’s premium increase, find some middle ground and then get the legislation passed. That’s, that’s your job. And so I would just urge them to do that, because not only air traffic, but there are a lot of people that are not getting paid right now. Air traffic is just one department of one agency, right? It’s a lot of people and I feel bad for them. I want to stand up for them and speak for them with my tiny voice as loud as I can because I know they’re hurting right now.

Archon Fung: Yeah. Thank you very much. And we’re just about at time. Thank you very much.

Stephen Richer: Can you want to ask one more?

Archon Fung: Yeah, do one more.

Stephen Richer: Because it’s in the chat. Sorry, Jack. I appreciate your indulgence. What would you say to people, not in Congress, but just normal Americans who are saying like, I see someone like, I know some federal employees are trying. What would you say to them in terms of how they could help?

Jack Criss: The normal people to the people that are furloughed?

Stephen Richer: Just like if they see the situation, they say, I want to do something. I want to, I want to help.

Jack Criss: Vote.

Stephen Richer: Okay. All right. Be part of the political process.

Jack Criss: Yeah. Vote. Yeah. Cause I mean, they could, you know, people have been helping me out financially because my story has been told. So they’ve been helping me out financially and I appreciate every last one of you guys. But man, I mean, It’ll be difficult to try to help, you know, everybody. I just, I have no idea. This is very, very difficult. It’s very intricate. And there’s so many moving parts. There’s no easy solution. So, I don’t know how to answer that, Stephen. That was a great, great question. So good that I don’t even know, my answer is I don’t know.

Stephen Richer: All right. Well, we’ll let you think about it and circle back with you about that. Sorry.

Archon Fung: No, no, that was great. I have one more just on that is like…

Stephen Richer: Yeah, please.

Archon Fung: There’s a lot of stuff happening to try to support people. Not a lot, but like people in your own position, people, I think at Logan Airport here, there are people trying to bring food and other donations to help out people who aren’t getting paid right now. Do you feel supported by the American public and by people going to airports and and other things at this point? Or do you feel like, you know, that’s really never going to amount to much, I appreciate the sentiment but it’s trivial.

Jack Criss: Yeah, I’m personally managing an exorbitant amount of anxiety and I probably could, I probably get a phone call from the FAA’s flight surgeon, because they don’t play that word. I may have just gotten in trouble, but I don’t care. I’m facing it. I’m anxious. And it could lead to depression. I won’t be able to medicate, so I’ll have to figure it out on my own. This is an incredibly difficult time, but anybody that’s reached out, said hello, and there’s been a ton of people that have said nice things to me, that helps my morale. That boosts my spirit. I appreciate every one of you guys, and that’s helping me avoid medication. But I’m being sincere when I say, like, this is pushing me personally to the edge, and I’m okay. Like, I’ve been in for a while. I have a little savings. What about the new hire that just bought their car? I know two kids. I say kids, but they’re adults. Two young folks. Just bought a car, man, and one of them told me today that he doesn’t know if he’ll be able to pay his rent next month, and it almost brought me to tears. So it sucks. Safety is important. We will keep our planes separated, but, man, this is serious. This is urgent.

Stephen Richer:Well, God bless and Godspeed. Thank you for the work that you’re doing. Thanks for keeping us safe. Like I said, I fly almost every week, so I have a vested interest in this and I’m very appreciative. And thanks to everyone who joined us.

Archon Fung: And yeah, I just want to echo William Hauser in the chat says, thank you, Jack.

Jack Criss: Thank you, William.

Archon Fung: Jack, thank you. Yeah, we’re at time. It’s been 30 minutes. Thank you very much for joining everyone. And especially to especially to Jack Criss, if you have any suggestions for the show, just email us at info@ash.harvard.edu.

Stephen Richer: And thanks to Courtney, Colette, Evelyn and Sarah, as always, for helping us put this together. And we will see you all next week.

Archon Fung: Great. Thank you very much, everyone. Have a great afternoon. Thank you.